Antisemitism on College Campuses: Students Speak Out

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[DESCRIPTION] Images of Touro University students are displayed on the screen and fade out as the Touro University logo fades in.

[TEXT] TOURO TALKS TOURO UNIVERSITY, Antisemitism on College Campuses: Students Speak Out, December 18, 2023, Touro Talks is sponsored by Robert and Arlene Rosenberg

[DESCRIPTION] The panelists appear in a Zoom grid format, each with their respective titles displayed in their video boxes.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] So tonight's program will focus on the atmosphere on college campuses around the country. Touro University is an unusual place in that we're a Jewish sponsored institution. Although, we have almost 20,000 students, and the majority of them are not Jewish. Perhaps a little bit later, I may say a few words about what's been going on on Touro campuses. And we've got campuses, not just in the New York Metropolitan area, but in six other cities around the country.

But tonight, we really want to focus on the experience of our student panelists, all of whom are students in undergraduate college or in law school at Ivy League universities. And somewhat interestingly, polls that were released yesterday showed that at least student perception of anti-Semitism is worse at elite universities than it is at other American universities. And perhaps later, we can talk about some of the reasons for that.

But I'll begin rather than introducing our students myself, asking them to tell us a little bit about themselves. And in the order that you appear on my Zoom screen, as we've all gotten used to, Talia, you're first. So Talia Dror, please tell us a little bit about yourself, where you're in school, and where you're from.

[Talia Dror] Awesome. Thanks for having us tonight. My name is Talia Dror. I'm a junior at Cornell, studying industrial and labor relations with minors in business and legal policy. I'm originally from Long Island, New York, and really glad to be here tonight.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] Thanks so much, Jillian.

[Jillian Lederman]I want to thank you as well for having us tonight. My name is Jillian Lederman. I'm a senior at Brown University, studying political science and economics. I am originally from Marblehead, Massachusetts. And I'm also the president of Brown Students for Israel.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] Welcome. Marie-Alice.

[MUTED]

[Dr. Alan Kadish] You're still muted, Marie.

[Marie-Alice Legrand] Thank you so much for having me. I'm Marie-Alice Legrand. And I'm German, so I grew up in Germany for 16 years in a former Jewish neighborhood. And I'm currently a 3L at Columbia Law School.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] Where in Germany did you grow up?

[Marie-Alice Legrand] Hamburg.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] OK. And so what brought you to the United States?

[Marie-Alice Legrand] Adventure. I lived for nine years in France, where I studied history and political science, and I also did law school in Paris, and did the whole benchmark qualification. And then I felt it was time to move on to the next chapter.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] Excellent. All right, so what we're going to start tonight with is asking each of the students whether they've seen any anti-Semitism on campus, and whether it's changed since October 7. All of our students, as you'll hear, have been at their respective programs for several years, so they have a perspective about what things have been over the past couple of years, and then perhaps, also, what's changed recently?

So just to mix it up, Gabriel, why don't you go ahead and get started? Tell us a little bit about what you've seen about anti-Semitism on campus both before October 7 and afterwards, and what personal experiences you've had with anti-Semitism, if any.

[Gabriel Diamond] Sure. Well, first, I'd like to say thank you also for having us. I'm a senior at Yale University. I'm also a research assistant with the Yorktown Institute. If we're going back to October 7, before that day on campuses, Israel was always a bit of an issue. And in the past, there had been, I guess, increases or spikes in confrontations, or rallies, or protests any time you saw some sort of war happening in Israel, in the Middle East.

But each of these times, at least personally, at Yale, the reaction was relatively small, and campus was relatively quiet. I remember going to Yalies4Palestine events. And they would garner maybe 15, 20 students at their events. It wasn't a massive turnout. They didn't really inspire big things.

Then after October 7, just two days after a horrific massacre, Yalies4Palestine hosted a rally, in their words, to celebrate the resistance. And I saw at that moment right from the get-go-- this was just two days afterwards-- Israel hadn't even responded. There was no response of any kind. This was purely Hamas's terrorist aggression, and these students decided to rally to celebrate their so-called resistance. They had about 80 to 100 people show up.

And from that moment on, you could see things were not going to be quiet this time around. This was going to be different. And since that day, there have been rallies, protests, graffiti all over the ground on campus, posters, hostage posters ripped down. They put up posters of their own, calling Israel a genocidal state. One poster has the words "Intifada until victory." And generally, this sense of, I would say, hostility, and in some cases intimidation on campus.

At this point, most recently, there's an incident on the New Haven Green. Yalies4Palestine co-organized their own protest, their rally. And this rally inspired someone who they claim was not associated with the protest to go and hoist a Palestinian flag on top of a large menorah. And what a menorah has to do with Palestinian resistance, I'm not exactly sure.

But clearly, there's been some other things lately. Students have started to take their activism to the libraries. As was recently written by, I believe, a [INAUDIBLE]--

[COUGHING]

--journal over at Harvard at Widener Library. There was a study in where students basically occupied the library, and put up a large banner, talking about end the occupation, and ceasefire, and all sorts of things. And here at Yale, there's also been a couple of these studies, perhaps not to the same degree as at Harvard, but nonetheless, creating disturbances, and really making it difficult in some cases for students to study in the libraries that they're supposed to be studying in.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] Have you, how have you felt? Have you experienced anything personally directed at you? Have you felt uncomfortable with the atmosphere? Because so far it sounds like you've described what's happening, but not told us how you and other Jewish students have felt.

[Gabriel Diamond] I think a lot of Jewish students on campus feel isolated. Personally, I'd say it has been a bit isolating. I think once you become outspoken about these issues, you're branded a certain way, and people automatically have assumptions. In some cases, you notice people don't talk to you as much, or avoid you.

I personally have seen this going on. There's also this sense that instead of actually dealing with the problem with the students that are creating this culture climate of intimidation and hostility, the universities are essentially telling Jews, hey, you have your Jewish spaces, your hillels, your chabads. Go there. Go retreat into your safe space. And instead of actually dealing with the problem, it just forces Jews into a corner.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] Have you felt personally attacked at any point, or is it simply the general atmosphere that you found uncomfortable?

[Gabriel Diamond] No, I haven't--

[Dr. Alan Kadish] Attacked either physically, or felt, or had statements directed against you, or felt uncomfortable speaking up in class, personally.

[Gabriel Diamond] I haven't personally been attacked in that kind of way. I think, honestly, a lot of these students, despite feeling more emboldened, when they actually-- when it comes to confronting you, a lot of them aren't going to do it. A lot of them are scared themselves. A lot of them don't have really the guts or the chutzpah to actually do something about it.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] Got it. Great. Thank you. We'll come back to you in a couple of minutes, Gabriel. And thanks for introducing yourself as well. Marie-Alice, tell us about your experience at Columbia Law School.

[Marie-Alice Legrand] So I'm not Jewish, and therefore I cannot speak personally how it affects my dear friends, but I can share how my visibly Jewish friends have been deliberately targeted at Columbia. They have been spat on. They have been directly called at Columbia Law School inside the building F the Jews. And they have been subject to anti-Semitic rants, where people have directly said to them, "I hope you suffer", like I'm quoting. There's a video recording of this.

And similarly as at Yale, I believe October 12 was a Thursday. So Israel has not done anything yet. It has not proceeded to enter Gaza. This was the immediate aftermath of the unspeakable events of October 7. And there was a massive, massive rally on campus, which similarly celebrated October 7 as a great success, as a resistance.

They were chanting songs that you would, as [INAUDIBLE] said, in Afghanistan or in Gaza, and they were calling for globalization of Intifada. And. yes, it was-- ever since then, it, unfortunately, continues to escalate. The professors have come to the support of those of the many, many, many student organizations which have issued statements which put the blame exclusively on Israel for October 7, statements which have not offered any compassion or any empathy to the Jewish and Israeli students.

What I find deeply, deeply disturbing over two months in, there's a massive misinformation and propaganda campaign going on. I almost receive daily emails that claim Israel is an apartheid state, and commits genocide and ethnic cleansing, which is nothing else than modern day blood libel. And so the situation is really, really bad at Columbia, unfortunately.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] So it sounds like what you're describing is a situation that's perhaps worse than it is at some other places, even though we haven't heard from two of the people here tonight. What is it about Columbia? I mean, Columbia has a significant Jewish population, right? And a significant international student population. So why do you think it seems particularly bad at Columbia, if you agree with that characterization?

[Marie-Alice Legrand] That is a question that I'm really trying to answer myself currently. I cannot speak definitely, because I really need to educate myself, and really need to understand how we got here, because what I'm observing is that anti-Semitism is structural. Here, unfortunately, it's systemic.

And I really need to educate myself first. But I think that what is particularly catchy at Columbia University is the vehement support of this entire-- of dividing the world into oppressor and the oppressed. And everyone who seemingly is oppressed is inherently good, and their actions cannot be in any way put into question. And the group which has power is inherently bad and evil.

I suppose that form of thinking, which, unfortunately, really has been-- has revealed itself in the current context after October 7. But I imagine that it is likely that that ideology at Columbia University is more pronounced than, for example, at Chicago Law School. At least that's my understanding.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] Thank you. Jillian, tell us a little bit about your experiences and if things did change on October 7, what you attribute that to.

[Jillian Lederman] Sure. I mean, unfortunately, I think my experiences mirror a lot of what has been said already. At Brown on October 8, Brown's chapter of Students for Justice in Palestine, in meetings that were-- in minutes that were released from the meeting that they held on that day, characterized what had happened on October 7 as a victory. In the weeks and months that followed, that approach very much defined what happened on campus. Like on a lot of other campuses, we had posters of kidnapped Israeli civilians torn down, posters put up next to those that said that the images of innocent kidnapped civilians were, quote, "Israeli propaganda."

People on my campus, including myself, for being outwardly pro-Israel have been called genocide supporters, and pigs, and filth. Most recently two of my friends, because they flew an Israeli flag outside of their apartment, someone broke into their apartment, and left a death threat. It's rampant. And it's really attributable, in my opinion, to this good versus bad dichotomy, where somehow we've gotten to a point where a terrorist attack was committed, and our college campuses engineered that into a battle versus-- like we said, oppressor versus oppressed, good versus evil, where Israel is on the side of the evil and the oppressor.

And once you establish that dichotomy, there is grounds to excuse any activity that goes against that oppressing ideology, that oppressing group. And so I personally have been confronted at campus parties for being outwardly pro-Israel, and told that I support genocide. I've been personally attacked on social media. Many other students have been personally attacked on social media. It's all done in the name of what they say is justice and what they say is justified Palestinian resistance. It's a complete warping of the system, but it's very powerful across college campuses.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] So do you have any sense why at Brown it's taken hold in this way? Did you experience-- did you think that there was this much anti-Semitism before October 7, and it just--

[Gabriel Diamond] I didn't--

[Dr. Alan Kadish] --became visible.

[Gabriel Diamond] I didn't think that, because I hadn't experienced it at all beforehand. But in the weeks since, I don't think I should have been as shocked. There was a report that came out recently that showed that the founding director and current professor at Brown Center for Middle East Studies was the former president of a Palestinian University that is run by the student division of Hamas that hosts rallies that glorify terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians. He is now a professor at Brown, along with many other professors who characterize the state of Israel as the Zionist colony, as a project of colonialism.

That's what students are being taught in class. Any person who majors in Middle East studies or any person who takes a class in that department is taught that ideology. And so I was shocked by the response. But I think it really is ingrained into a lot of the system and to a lot of the course material that students are being taught.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] Yeah. I mean, some have suggested that anti-Semitism has been around for a couple of thousand years, and it never really went away. It just became impolite. So perhaps we have a nexus of two things here, which is baseline, low level, but still ingrained anti-Semitism, together with the triggering of this right-wrong dynamic, which is tied only to whether you've been successful. And perhaps that combination of things is what's produced the horrible experiences you've had on campus.

So I may have to take back what I said about Columbia being unusually bad, from what you've said about what's going on in Brown. Talia tell us a little bit about your experiences.

[Talia Dror] Yeah, absolutely. So I guess it all started with us with the disruptive SJP protests, the same way it started with everyone else. We had about 300 people attending these SJP protests. Within the immediate aftermath of the October 7 attacks, the Student Assembly introduced a resolution essentially glorifying Hamas's actions as resistance.

Within that week, there were several other rallies. At one of the rallies, a professor had spoken and explained that he was both exhilarated and energized by the Hamas attacks. There were Jewish students in his class. He's a professor in the same school I attend, the division of Cornell that I attend, and Jewish students had to unenroll from his class because they didn't feel comfortable being taught by a professor that is exhilarated by the murderous, barbaric killing of 1,500 innocent civilians.

Eventually, we received death threats on an anonymous posting platform. It was one radicalized student who, essentially, just posted 25 times that he was going to bring an assault rifle to campus and "shoot all pig Jews." He claimed that he was going to bomb the Center for Jewish Living and shoot up the Kosher Dining Hall.

That was the point in which the university finally decided to interfere and protect their Jewish students. They released a statement protecting Jewish students, or claiming that they are committed to protecting Jewish students. In the weeks following, you still had SJP protests. You still had professors, essentially, what Jillian was saying, indoctrinating students in their classes, singling out Jewish students, and making them explain their views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, or the genocide in Gaza to their entire class.

And then most recently, we had Students Justice for Palestine formed a coalition with other student groups and occupied buildings on campus until the university conceded to their demands. They essentially slept in our main student building, barricading the door with mattresses, and posted on all of their social media platforms, like, "Everyone come to Willard Straight Hall to free Palestine while we play Super Mario Bros. and talk to the administration."

And it sounds like a joke, but students genuinely felt unsafe walking into the building that day, because it was decorated with signs that said "Intifada, intifada, from Gaza to Ithaca," which is a deliberate call for the killing of Jewish students on our campus.

And upon raising that to the administration, the administration emphasized that some people view the word intifada differently. And so due to the different definitions of the word intifada, it's within their freedom of speech abilities to say that they would like to cause an intifada in Ithaca. And so the way we should solve this issue is by sitting down with SJP and having open discussion on what the word intifada means.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] So that's pretty frightening. So you've described an administration that, really, where the response has really been one that hasn't really made you feel safe, despite their protestations, despite the arrest of the one egregious actor that you've talked about. Has anything happened on campus to make you feel safer, or do you think it's just empty rhetoric on the part of the administration?

[Talia Dror] Well, the administration has worked very closely with the Center for Jewish Living and the Dining Hall to ensure 24/7 police protection. They've also committed to integrating anti-Semitism into their DEI efforts. But as Gabe was saying earlier, it all feels like an attempt to shove Jews out of the broader community into their secluded areas, and basically saying, oh, you can go to the Kosher Dining Hall, but main campus? That's not safe for you.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] And that's not really either a positive experience, what a college experience should be, or even fair. Jillian at Brown, apparently, they actually arrested some protesters a few days ago. So do you see that as a change in the way the administration is approaching things? Has it made you feel safer? How do you rate the administration's response?

[Jillian Lederman] I've actually been fairly grateful for the way that the administration has responded to a lot of what has happened on campus. Our president, Christina Paxson, has been very supportive of the Jewish community. We have a very strong and vibrant Jewish community at Brown, which has made the past two, three months much easier.

And the rest of the students, 41 students sat in around the president's office, trespassing into the room, which had specific hours. Once they passed those hours, they were then arrested by Providence, Rhode Island police. They were demanding that the university divest from Israeli companies and demand an immediate ceasefire between Israel and Gaza.

That was a response by the administration that was strong. They said, you are free to protest, but once you violate the rules, you will face a response from the administration and from the city. Generally, I think that the administration has been strong in that area. The problem is that so many of the issues that we've been seeing, as I mentioned and as others mentioned, have sort of been festering for so long.

And a lot of the expressions of hate, of prejudice are within universities' freedom of speech. There's very little at times that universities can do. Of course, there's a limit. And universities have failed to act at that limit many times. But a lot of these issues are among the students, among the faculty. And it's perspectives that have been allowed to fester, and grow, and become incredibly powerful and incredibly influential to many other students on that campus.

And the actions by the administrations that can counter those-- punitive measures will only do so much. It's really a sort of intellectual enterprise that needs to happen to combat a lot of what's happening. It's systemic. It's all over the place. And it's very compelling to students who are coming into these schools. So I have been-- I've been very grateful to have the administration that I've had. But much more needs to be done at a much deeper level.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] So Marie-Alice, what about the administration at Columbia? Do you think the administration has been sensitive to the anti-Semitism, sensitive to the needs of Jewish students? How would you evaluate their response?

[Marie-Alice Legrand] I would say that the administration has failed the Jewish community very, very, very badly. It took the administration several weeks to eventually issue a statement condemning Hamas.

[COUGHING]

Condolences and compassion for the Jewish community-- I don't recall the exact date, but I believe it took at least three weeks. And I think the problem at Columbia University is that the administration refuses to enforce its own policy. So the student organizations, which have been not expelled, but who were forbidden from engaging in any organizing until the end of the fall semester have violated, openly violated, these restrictions, and continue to violate policies.

And at Columbia Law School, there has been an event where the Columbia Students for Justice for Palestine in coalition with other affinity groups have banded together to organize a memorial for the Palestinian losses-- proceeded to do so using a speakerphone in the middle-- during our classes, which was incredibly disrupting, which was in open violation to policies at Columbia Law School. And they have refused to proceed to any action. So I think Columbia administration is currently failing.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] Gabriel, what do you feel about the Yale administration? As in a few of the other colleges that we've talked about or have gained prominence, the president of Yale is Jewish. What do you feel has been going on as far as the administration at Yale is concerned?

[Gabriel Diamond] I think Yale has been giving the perception that it's been better, and that somehow President Salovey has actually responded in a meaningful way. The only thing I've seen, though, is double standards and hypocrisy.

Right on-- I believe it was right around October 7, there was a professor, Zareena Grewal, who made a number of pretty abhorrent tweets, basically defending Hamas. And there was a bit of an uproar about it. A student created a petition, telling-- asking the university to get her to resign or fire her.

And the university actually defended her in the name of free speech, which, as we all know, these universities don't really care about free speech. They only do when it serves their political interests. And Yale ranks, I believe, like 234th out of 243 schools in free speech rankings, according to FIRE, which gives standard rankings.

And I also remember there was an incident with-- a student basically went and they saw that a university administrator was actually taking down the hostage posters. This wasn't just a random student. And they asked them why they did it. And they were told that the university instructed them to take them down because there were duplicates on the poster board, because that goes against university regulations, which is true, if there are duplicates. But of course, as we know, these hostage posters are all different faces. They're different posters.

And then I saw just a couple of days later-- and by the way, that incident happened within a day between the time that the posters were put up and the time that the posters were taken down. Then I saw that same week that there was flyers everywhere, probably about a dozen on each poster board, clearly duplicates, of an event. And the event was featuring two people of color, who were also members of the LGBTQ community. And those posters stayed up for at least a week, possibly more.

And so it just shows to me that there's a clear hypocrisy in the standards and the way they enforce the regulations, and the responses, particularly the way they sort of disguise all this in the name of free speech. It's quite absurd.

And then on top of this, most recently, President Salovey basically has found a way to, I would say, get away with this in a sort of political manner, and also just create more bureaucracy. He established some new committees to address anti-Semitism. He's talked about how he's going to work with Jewish leaders and campus members.

So really, all the university is saying is, we're going to treat this as an intellectual exercise, and try to figure out where there is and isn't anti-Semitism. And let's create some more committees, some more bureaucracy, basically-- in some cases, I wouldn't be surprised if they hire more people to bolster this. And it's just going to create more administrative bloat.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] Thank you. So collectively, you've painted a pretty frightening picture of what's going on on some college campuses. And before we get to questions from the audience, I just wanted to ask, is there something that-- are there some concrete steps you think we can take to try to make Jewish students more comfortable going forward?

The first step, really, what you've all described is Jewish students having to be isolated on campus. And to be honest, I've heard about this from some of our medical students at Touro at New York Medical College for several years, including some students at some of the schools represented here today, for example, Columbia, where even a few years ago, students' attitude was, well, we stick to Hillel. We stick to our own. And we don't let the outside environment bother us a little bit.

But of course, what we've heard in the last half hour or so is far more insidious than that. So my question to each of you is, do you have any ideas about what we can do to make things better? And do you see things getting better by themselves over time? And what can we do to make things better? So with that easy question, Talia, I'll start with you.

[Talia Dror] Thank you. Well, on that front, I have two responses. First of all, similar to what Marie-Alice was saying, a big issue is the code of conduct simply not being enforced. SJP rallies are disruptive. They're at 12:00 PM on a Tuesday when students are sitting in their classes, that they pay to attend, and they can't take their finals.

They can't-- these SJP chapters that are violating the codes of conduct should be shut down, the same way any other chapter or organization that's violating campus rules or endorsing terrorism would get shut down. The administrations need to not be afraid of these progressive mobs, and simply shut them down. We are providing platforms for the endorsement of terrorism on our campuses, and that is unacceptable.

The second solution that I can-- or step that I can see being taken to remedy the situation is developing the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism. I know that's a big push that everyone's trying to make right now. It's because it essentially equates or says that anti-Zionism is inherently anti-Semitism, which is a really big point in many of these SJP campuses-- or many of these SJP arguments. They're claiming that criticism of the existence of the state of Israel or calling for its abolition is not anti-Semitic, which is incorrect.

The phrase "from the river to the sea" is inherently anti-Semitic. It calls for the elimination of 7 million Jews. That's anti-Semitic. And there should not be a place on any college campus for that. But that can't be enforced in the current code of conduct because anti-Zionism is not equated to anti-Semitism. So it needs to be done so that once we do start enforcing those codes of conduct, it can be done with these SJP rallies being shut down.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] Thank you. Jillian, any other thoughts?

[Jillian Lederman] Sure. I mean, I think that there are easy instances where you can see that things are not being shut down, or taken action against. And when people are assaulted, when posters are being ripped down, when there are active calls to violence, or threats that are wielded, those need to be responded to much more fiercely by universities than they are right now.

On a more difficult level, as I mentioned, with the complete one-sidedness of Brown's Center for Middle East Studies, as well as almost every single event about Israel and Gaza that is hosted by our International Affairs Department, which has events every single week about this subject. Every single one of those events and nearly every single one of those professors presents their perspective from the side of anti-Israel, of Israel is a Zionist colony, of Israel is an oppressor.

The fact that there is so much intellectual homogeneity in these departments and in these events is the problem. And I can, and people in my community, and people on campus can say as many times as we want, this is not true. You are defining Zionism incorrectly. Your facts are incorrect. We can say that. And we are, as many times as we want.

And we can hold our own events. And we can attempt to influence campus discourse as much as we can. But until the professorship changes, and until there is intellectual diversity in the events that are hosted on campus, in the classes that are offered, no one is going to change their minds.

There's a vast portion of campus that comes to college without a serious understanding of what's [AUDIO OUT] Israel and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. And they come, and they don't understand. And that makes sense that they don't. But professors and events have a responsibility and an opportunity to educate these students in a certain way. And I think that until those institutional elements change, then the campus environment won't.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] Marie-Alice, any additional thoughts?

[Marie-Alice Legrand] I just want to echo that education is really, really important. I was fortunate enough to have received a really good public education on the Shoah in Germany, which has greatly informed my understanding of anti-Semitism today. And I think that other than enforcing, actually, university policies, it's very important that professors and the administration really combat the ongoing intentional misinformation campaign against Israel, which is modern blood libel. And I think that it's outrageous that these falsehoods stand uncorrected.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] And Gabriel.

[Gabriel Diamond] I think there's a million and one things that can be done. There's so much going wrong with these universities. And I think it's important to emphasize that the response that's happened on campus since October 7 has not emerged out of the blue. This is an ideological capture and takeover of these universities. There's bloated DEI administrations that need to be dealt with. They've created a lot of problems, because they effectively act as police in policing these administrative regulations that they have. And they apply them with double standards, as we've seen.

As Jillian said, the professors need to be-- honestly, there should be a total overhaul of professors, and at the very least, the ones who are making these crazy statements. And I'm pretty sure there's a professor at Cornell who, before even being hired at Cornell, wrote that 9/11 was the job of Israel. And so it's a-- it should be pretty blatantly clear that this professor shouldn't be hired, and yet they still are.

And then on top of this, Congress and the American public needs to wake up to the funding that is coming in from foreign actors, particularly Qatar, and also to the fact that billions of dollars from taxpayer money is going towards these universities and subsidizing them. And American taxpayers should not be having to put their money towards the same universities that are, at very best, indoctrinating their children, at very worst, creating hostile environments.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] Great. So just before turning it over to Sam, I just want to answer a couple of the questions that were directed at me. I'll start first by making a point. All five of the universities represented tonight are private universities. And so the First Amendment defense for allowing hate speech, which is what many of you described, doesn't really apply. Private institutions can and do have policies that don't allow certain speech, which is still protected by the First Amendment. And in fact, all universities do.

Plagiarism is protected by the First Amendment, but all universities, at least in theory, publish plagiarism-- punish plagiarism. So I think the First Amendment defense is really a red herring. Now, of course, if an institution chooses to have a policy that protects First Amendment speech, that's a policy decision. It's not a constitutional decision.

So there were two questions about Touro. One was, what's been going on campus? And as I mentioned, we have a pretty diverse student population at Touro, particularly at its graduate and professional schools. And certainly, there have been some rare instances where students have been uncomfortable throughout the spectrum. We've not had significant outward protests. We haven't had significant disruption of classes.

There have only been rare instances of some targeting. So overall, I would say the Touro's been relatively lucky in terms of overt instances. I think beneath the scenes, both Jewish and other students, feel some degree of discomfort. Some have tried to work together, creating some joint discussions and joint statements. But I would say that compared to what we've heard from you and compared to what we've heard from a lot of other institutions, we've been incredibly lucky at Touro. We've worked hard at creating the right kind of environment, but we've been incredibly lucky.

The second question I was asked was about Touro being a school for Jewish students and the representation of Jewish students in Touro's graduate programs. Touro is not a faith-based institution. Although, we call ourselves a Jewish sponsored institution. Like all colleges and universities, we give preference to our own students from Touro in graduate and professional school applications.

The specific question I was asked was about medical school. We have six medical school campuses, and the percentage of Jewish students at each of those campuses is different. We don't have a formal program that favors any student over any other student. Although, we support diversity in the health care workforce. We don't have quotas or point systems that create diversity.

So we think we have enough spaces at Touro in certain areas to accommodate a wide variety of students from different backgrounds. And we certainly want to make it a place where Jewish students are comfortable and welcome. That doesn't mean that Jewish students will be automatically admitted to competitive graduate and professional programs. And as I said, the admission preference is directed at our own students, which is something, as I said, that every college and university does.

So with that, I'm hoping that in the question and answer period, we can talk about perhaps some more solutions. I'm going to turn it over to Sam Levine, who's been going through over 30 questions and answers. And in the next few minutes, he'll try to get through a couple of those. I've answered two of them. So Sam, you've got a lot of work to do.

[Samuel Levine] Thank you so much, Dr. Kadish. And yes, we do have just a few moments, so I'd like to try to address some of the questions that have been asked. And one question drawing on and building on your suggestions look more broadly to what we might be able to do. What are your recommendations that the community might be able to do to help be better advocates for you on the campus? And if anyone would like to answer that question, go ahead.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] Sam, do you have any thoughts about what you think might make a difference in the community?

[Samuel Levine] So as a professor at Touro Law School, and as Dr. Kadish mentioned, the Touro campuses have been-- and I'm pleased and proud to say that at the law school, we've maintained a very respectful and safe environment for all our students who come from various different backgrounds and different perspectives on every issue under the sun.

I think, broadly speaking, in terms of the community, we have to speak out. And I think that Touro's organizations, Touro's programming, such as tonight's event, really is an opportunity for us to demonstrate back to our students throughout the country that we are on your side. We have your back. And we appreciate, as I mentioned, the courage that you've all demonstrated in speaking out on campus.

One of the questioners asked-- and I know the answer. Unfortunately, having spoken with many of you before, the answer is yes. But if you'd like to describe, one of the questioners asked if you've lost friends personally based on as a result of your advocacy for Israel and against anti-Semitism. Go ahead, Marie-Alice, please.

[Marie-Alice Legrand] Yes, I must say that I think it was October 9, Monday, when all the student statements went out. And soon after, I think it was the same day that I spoke up on the group chat at Columbia. And then I started-- I think the Wednesday after I started posting on LinkedIn, and I virtually lost all my friends at law school. And I now have a wonderful, fantastic new group of friends.

But it's been very shocking. And I think, to me, as a non-Jewish person, it's clearly, clearly an issue that has been there for decades. And I think I have possibly willfully turned an eye, a blind eye. And yeah, it's a very, very hostile environment. And it's shocking to see how quickly people reveal themselves.

[Samuel Levine] Talia, it looks like you're nodding.

[Talia Dror] Yeah. I mean, I just-- I speak as someone who walks into my classes, and was very cordial with my class friends. And basically, none of my friends that aren't Jewish who are in my program won't speak to me anymore, because I'm like that token Zionist girl. I was essentially pushed out of the mock trial organization at Cornell, which has made themselves very firmly anti-Israel. It's very unfortunate. I think many outspoken Jewish students have lost their friends.

[Samuel Levine] On the flip side, some of our viewers have wondered if there's been an opportunity or maybe at least an effort to organize some sort of dialogue, some sort of teaching. We've mentioned and you've pointed to the lack of education, the lack of understanding, the lack of knowledge about the reality in the Middle East, and beyond, and Jewish history. Have you seen any efforts along those lines? Gabe.

[Gabriel Diamond] I've seen a few efforts on this front. One of the, actually, most positive ones has been very grassroots. A handful of pro-Israel Jewish students decided to set up a table in the center of our campus with just a sign that says, "Let's talk about Israel." And over the course of a week, every day, throughout the entire day, different students would sit down at the table, and a lot of students would come up to them.

And they always would let the student who approaches the table speak first so that they can say what's on their mind, what do they think about Israel, what preconceived notions do they have. Maybe they just don't know enough. Honestly, in a lot of cases, there are a lot of students who really just don't know, or they see the hostility, or they see these crazy protests. And they think, what's going on? And it's the socially acceptable, socially typical normal thing to do to bandwagon onto these rallies in order to keep your friends.

And so for them, they come up to the table, and they start talking. And a lot of these cases, these conversations are very productive. Maybe they shift the needle a little-- maybe they shift the needle a little bit, or maybe they just educate the student a little bit more. In some cases, it helps them get more involved, gives them the tools and the resources in order to advocate for Israel, and against terrorist sympathizers. And so there are some positive Efforts and that does give a little bit of a glimmer of hope.

[Samuel Levine] And Gabe, do you see that as a potential model for other campuses?

[Gabriel Diamond] I think it can be a model for other campuses. Though, I do know-- it's crazy, because Yale is, in a lot of ways, considered better than other peer institutions. But obviously, that's a very low bar. And so I think other campuses, it could be a model, but unfortunately, in some instances, I know students would likely either be targeted or harassed for doing something like this.

[Samuel Levine] Jillian, have you seen any of those efforts, or do you think that's something that might be able to be at least tried at Brown?

[Jillian Lederman] There have been a couple of attempts, not nearly as many as there should be. And I think that is something that is a huge priority for next semester. At the end of the day, when things of this scale happen in the world, college campuses really should be the best possible places to be.

We should have been so lucky to be on college campuses when this happened because of exposure to experts in the field, people who disagreed with us, the opportunity to have debates and conversations about this issue. And of course, acknowledged moments of moral clarity when there are awful atrocities to mourn.

We haven't seen that because when people define Zionists as being to their core evil or to their core racist, there isn't a lot of opportunity for dialogue. And I think that in the times when we have reached out to Students for Justice in Palestine, or groups that disagree, that has been the response. Why would I engage in dialogue with someone who believes such a horrendous thing to believe?

In conversations with administration, with our college president, they have expressed that having opportunities for dialogue, hosting events, bringing students together is a major priority for next semester. And I think for our own club as students, we want to do something similar to Yale, where there are conversations happening between students. That's something that we're definitely intending to do.

And I think that the first step to that is really establishing, assume the best in each other. Don't assume that people want you dead, or believe something that is so antithetical to your own ideology that you can't possibly have a conversation with them. I think that that needs to happen a lot more. And I'm hopeful that next semester, we'll see a lot more of that.

[Samuel Levine] So if I understood you, it sounds like you have reached out to other groups, but those efforts have been rebuffed, those openings have been denied.

[Jillian Lederman] We have. And that's a general policy that has been in place even before October 7 happened. What I have had is some conversations with members of the Jewish community who feel very differently. And to the extent that those are productive, it's great. But even just having the conversation is great. And I think that that is also an opportunity where there maybe can be more dialogue among members of the same community who feel very differently from each other.

[Samuel Levine] Thank you. I hope those efforts are facilitated, as you mentioned, by the administration, and you do make some progress next semester. Marie-Alice, it looked like you had some thoughts on that as well.

[Marie-Alice Legrand] Yeah, I believe it was the end of November when early-- I think it was perhaps the first week of December, so very recently that Columbia Law School has initiated sort of a moderated dialogue among, I think, 6 to 10 students, which, I guess, is a good step in the right direction.

And we are currently with a group of very bright classmates. We are trying to found the organization Law Students Against Anti-Semitism, which is targeted-- is adopting the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism, and which aims for targeted advocacy about anti-Semitism in both historic and contemporary, because there's clearly a lack of education. And we hope that it can have a positive impact at Columbia.

[Dr. Alan Kadish] I'd like to thank the students as well, and also say I'm sure it took a lot of courage to say some of the things you're saying, and to be straightforward and honest. And so I think the I, the people at Touro, as well as the hundreds of listeners, will really appreciate that.

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